Hello everyone My name is Kanisha Grayson I am the founder and CEO of the Art of Applying

The Art of Applying helps people from all over the world get into the world's best graduate schools and get money to pay for it And today we have one of our six figure scholars and

Wonderful Okay Jenny, thank you so much for being here today and for sharing your great

news with us Let's just get right to it What great news are we celebrating today?

The first of more great news I'm hoping So I was admitted to Cornell Johnson with just

over 50k in fellowship for each of my two years So that's about 100k in money to help

fund my MBA which I'm super excited about I am still waiting to hear back from my other

schools and I think I should actually hear back from two of them this week So hopefully

more good news to come There is going to be a lot more good news to come and I can't

wait to hear about it and also now that you've gotten this $100,000 scholarship that's going to be some really important leverage you can use to request additional money from other

schools that either give you none or give you less So it's a magnified amplified win

Alright so Jenny, what I know everyone wants to know is as much of your stats as you're comfortable sharing The kinds of things people want to know would be age, where you went

to college, what you studied, GPA, test score, kind of work experience background, sort of that profile snapshot so that they can compare and stack themselves up against you So share

of that whatever you'd like to share Yeah absolutely So I am 29 right now and I would

actually be turning 30 shortly after I start my MBA so I'm perhaps a little bit on the older side I went to UC Berkeley for undergrad where I had a GPA of I think it was 35 something,

36 something for major specific I took the GMAT three times, first two times Definitely

knew I wanted to get higher but I ended up getting over 700 I think I got a 710, a 710

on my third try So that's what I ran with And then let's see As for work history, my

career has been a little bit scattered honestly So I actually started in ad tech startups

in the Bay Area and I was able to wear a lot of different hats and even manage a team when I was working in ad tech However after that I moved into marketing on the brand side as

a marketing manager and then eventually into marketing consulting for a boutique consulting

firm So I think while I was able to present all of that in a relatively positive light

in my applications, I was really concerned about the fact that my work history was actually a little bumpy I had actually been laid off once through a company reorg and I was actually

laid off again during the application process because my team decided to cut an entire department

So there were two reorgs on my resume that I was just feeling very insecure about And

let's see outside of that Is there anything else I'm missing from my background, Kanisha?

Well, all of that sounds great Just because we are on audio, if you want to share your

ethnicity that might be helpful for people but you don't have to Yeah, sure So I'm

Asian American and based in the West Coast Okay, cool So that'll be helpful for people

All right, so Jimmy, how did you find out about the art of applying and what made you reach out for help? So I'd actually been considering applying for an MBA for a few years actually and I'd looked at some consulting firms here and there The art of applying was actually recommended to me by a good friend

of mine But I think I wasn't really ready to take the plunge until I'd done a little bit of research

So I actually called a number of different companies and went through some of their initial calls

And I just felt that the art of applying offered the most personalized approach There were many

where I felt that they just wanted to rattle off my staff and then tell me that I didn't stand a chance getting in anywhere But I felt that the team at the art of applying,

they seem to genuinely care about my story and I could already feel like they were going to set me up by helping me position that story in the best positive light Wow, okay And so how did it feel

when you were talking to all these other companies and they told you you didn't even stand a chance of getting in in like what I assume was like a 10-15 minute conversation? Yes I mean it just felt

aggressive and salesy Like they basically what they were telling me is I mean everything's terrible

and you're not going to stand a chance unless you work with us But it wasn't believable to me

because I felt that they knew nothing about my story that they were only looking at my numbers

And I mean the level of professionalism that I was looking for wasn't there either because either they showed up late or they forgot my name throughout the call There were just a lot of

a lot of warning signs I felt and that was with more than one firm Interesting, okay What I think

of my I'm just putting my like business hat on What I think might be happening is kind of a churn

and burn just talking to so so many people that that maybe that's how they're forgetting people's names or or what Yeah what I'm really hearing here is a difference between like scarcity and

abundance or the difference between like fear and hope maybe in the approach of the application process that's really interesting to me that kind of you're nothing without us that that is interesting

Okay well I'm sorry that that happened but I'm glad that you're not the way to us And so what

actually did happen on on your breakthrough call? So my breakthrough call if I'm remembering this correctly I think was about an hour long It feels like so long ago So already they were spending

more time with me Basically they ran through my entire story all my hopes aspirations concerns what

I was hoping to get out of working with the art of applying It was a very detailed interview to make

sure that the art of applying and and I were the right fit for each other So it already felt

different from the other admissions consultants who were clearly just trying to make a quick sale

I felt that the art of applying was they weren't just they weren't trying to get I didn't feel that you guys were trying to get me no matter what It was more a sense of

you know are you really ready to take this leap? You know what is your holistic story and you know like what makes you the most excited? How can we help you achieve those dreams? So I just felt that the the mood and the approach was different and that really stood out for me Okay well wonderful

So what did you hope we would help you with? What were your biggest areas of worry in your application process? Yeah so I think I think for me I wanted to make sure I was putting my best fit forward this application cycle I didn't want to apply for like again next year for instance

and I just wanted to make sure I was doing the best I could now for for two reasons really

One is I'm I already felt like I was on the older end of the spectrum and just given some of my personal plans like starting a family I wanted to get my MBA as soon as possible Additionally

funding is always challenging and MBA is definitely a huge investment so I don't want to get into my school with say 80% of what my application could be and just get accepted and nothing more If I

have a chance of getting funding I wanted to make sure that you know I was showing them the best I could so that I could get whatever was available to me and so that's that's a big part of why I reached out and that's what I was looking for out of the art of applying just helping me go from say an application that's at 80% of my potential to the maximum Beautiful and what

helped you cross that bridge of believing that that could even be a possibility you'd already gotten quite a bit of feedback from other companies that are purportedly like professionals at this that you're not even going to get in and then we're over here asking you in your breakthrough call how would it feel if you don't have to pay the 100% price tag you know I know that's one of the questions we always ask in the breakthrough call because we want to know what that would feel

like for people how important that is to them what helped you cross that bridge from people telling you you're you're not even going to get in to us asking you how's it going to feel if we not only helped you get in but we help you get money to pay for it I think that was exactly what I was

looking for and I mean honestly I think that I might have had a little bit of an unfair advantage in researching consulting firms just because I had a friend that knew the art of applying from from working with you guys and so I was able to talk to her about making this potential investment and having a friend tell me that you guys are the real deal really it helped me make that leap Yes and that's exactly why I do these interviews is because not everyone has the benefit

of a friend like someone that they really trust but my hope is that you know a dozen I shouldn't but like you know we do have a dozen or more now but a dozen interviews with real people could help someone understand like oh they are the real deal you know one thing that's interesting is we are never on any of those lists for like top best admissions consulting firms and the reason why is I don't apply for them I don't reach out and ask to be put on them for me obviously I do want people to know about my business but I don't really want it to be about let's look at their hourly rate next to the other company's hourly rate let's put their package pricing next to the other it's not about that getting into one of these top schools already changes the entire trajectory of someone's life and getting in with funding is the cherry on top and I just don't think that that's something you can really put a price tag on which which is necessary for me to be able to you know participate in those rankings so yeah a lot of it is us having to put out content and spread the word other ways about how much we are helping people yeah and one thing I should add to that actually is that I am one of those perhaps insane applicants that spends too much time on G-Net Club on Reddit on poets and quants so it's not that I entered this process knowing nothing about what to expect with admissions however I was looking for people who were experts that would take out some of the ambiguity from the process and I was able to assess whether I felt like you guys were experts because you know I saw all this content that you guys were publishing I read through and there was a lot of really great stuff in there and I don't know if you remember this Kenisha but I met you once in person maybe a year and a half ago and I think that meeting you in person it really helped because I was able to ask a lot of questions

I felt that you had very thoughtful very I mean just really wonderful responses and so that that were those were things I considered as well Oh that's wonderful Jenny where was it?

I think it might have been at like a women's event in Seattle two years ago I think you guys were tabling so Oh that's fantastic yes yes yes it was um yes yes I was the art of recline was a corporate

sponsor um yes of that event and I had a little table and I made one of my friends be at the table yes yes Oh that's wonderful I'm so glad that's great okay very cool um wonderful okay so

Jenny um talk to us about the experience of actually working on your applications with your consultant with the art of applying in the application accelerator what was it like? Um you mean in the accelerator or throughout the whole program? Yeah yeah um so overall I was really surprised by the robustness of the program and how much you guys offered um so like beyond support from my consultant brainstorming through my narrative picking out the juiciest bits to focus on in my essays um having experts to proofread and tell me if I was veering off course or if something didn't make sense um I I also appreciated just having someone on my side that I could just ping and ask questions with throughout my accelerator period um and I also appreciated how I think the

And that can be, I mean, for people who are very passionate about their careers, that can be very challenging

So, beyond just the essay support and the admissions support, there was also an element of emotional support as well

And that, I thought, was just invaluable and a surprising benefit of working with the Art of Applying

I, Kanisha, I don't know if this is something that you guys normally, you guys have offered for a long time, but the mindset coaching? The mindset coach is exactly, yes, I really appreciated that

Yeah, talk more about, tell everyone, what is a mindset coach? What did you think when you heard the phrase and that you were going to get some mindset coaching sessions and just, what was your experience with that? I think by nature, I'm just a little skeptical of a lot of things in life

And I think when I heard mindset coach, I thought it was just going to be someone who is just going to give you a pump up talk

I don't really, I don't know if a pump up talk is going to really help me, you know, alleviate these concerns and anxieties

These mindset coaches are trained counselors, trained therapists that actually talk you through any sort of logical breakdowns in your thinking

So for instance, if you're anxious about one reason, they'll really dig in and ask you, like, okay, well, why do you feel that particular way? Like is this really the end of the world? Is this, do you think that this feeling is maybe a little overly amplified? They really, they probe into your anxieties, your stressors, anything that's weighing you down and keeping you from being the best you can and help you cut it out

So that was really fantastic, being able to have an expert on my side

And just one clarification I want to make is they're actually not therapists or counselors, they're trained life coaches and they are certified in success and performance coaching

So not like they're for anyone listening, not like they're, so I don't get in trouble

But they really impressed me with their professionalism and their ability to drill down

Okay, and Jenny, what, well, actually one of the things that I'd love to hear about is, well, first of all, in your intake form, we ask who are the first four people you're going to tell when you get in? Who are your first four people that you have put on the form? Oh my gosh, this is so long ago

And he's always been my biggest supporter and he's actually a big reason of why I was able to take the sleep of faith with the art of applying because he knew how much this meant to me and he encouraged me to make this investment

And then my family as well, because they've always believed in me, they've given up a lot to move to the States and invest in their children

And then my best friends who perhaps share similar goals and are keeping each other encouraged throughout this process

And I would love to just hear about how does this feel to not only get in to Cornell, but to get in with $50,000 per year, $100,000 less out of your pocket or in student loans that you'll have to take on? A huge relief because I think a part of me was really afraid of letting down these people in my life

My husband, for instance, after investing so much in me and my career, it's good to be able to lessen the burden on his end for me to get an MBA

Because in our case, while I get an MBA, he's going to be working and supporting us as a family and I don't want to add to that strain if possible

And what happened when you, how did you get the news and what happened immediately when you got the news? So Cornell Johnson has actually really amazed me with the strength of their community and how welcoming they are to prospective students

So I received a call and that was actually really embarrassing because I think I was still asleep at the time so my voice was really froggy and I was a little confused about what was going on

And then very shortly after I received the call, I actually received some emails from members of the admissions team at Johnson, students at Johnson with similar backgrounds or who are members of clubs that I would potentially want to be a part of reaching out and welcoming me to the Johnson community and just offering an ear if I had any questions or concerns

So I immediately felt that after this super long admissions process, I was, I already belonged in the MBA community

It's so lovely, right, to have a dream that has been deferred and then also to get laid off and then in this process get laid off again

Yeah, do you, I think I'd be helpful for people to hear about the ways in which you felt we supported you through that layoff or thinking through, because I remember there were months where you like, I think I see it coming

Yeah, I think without the art of applying, the prospect of a layoff would have been much more overwhelming because I tried to Google a lot like what to do if you're laid off during the admissions process and there really weren't that many resources out there

And even the discussions that I found seemed to have very conflicting sets of advice

So just being able to talk things through with people who knew the admissions process in and out and just get personalized input and recommendations on what I should do for my particular circumstances made me feel a lot less alone with a situation that would have been very intimidating otherwise

One of the things that is so important to me about the way we do business is creating that sense of community and camaraderie, not just between you and your consultant, not just between you and the mindset coaches, but also creating a community among the clients, having group coaching calls in addition to your one-on-one calls so that you can hear other people's questions and struggles, having that online Facebook group so that people

can post their questions, their celebrations, their frustrations and their wins

I'm normally not the type of person who's super active in Facebook groups, but I've been going to the Facebook page every day just to see what the rest of the community is up to and what they're dealing with because it's been really helpful for me to just be able to have these people who are going through the same thing, understand what I'm going through and just really feel like we can relate with each other

And I actually recently had someone reach out to me because she is also going through a layoff in the middle of the process

So already, like I'm able to find someone that was in the same shoes and we've been talking each other through the situation a little bit and it's good to not be alone

So the really hard, difficult thing that you've been through, one of our other clients is going through it now and you can provide some encouragement to her

Jenny, talk to me about if you felt at any point, whether it was before working with us or while working with us, any apprehension about being an Asian American applying to business school? That's something that I do hear about a lot on breakthrough calls, but I wanted to know if was that anything you were worried about? Oh my gosh

I mean, I think this is something that all Asian Americans think about as they apply to school, no matter the program, whether it's undergrad or MBA admissions, because there's so much speculation on the internet, it's very easy to just start worrying about not being good enough

So yeah, I absolutely thought about how being Asian American might impact my admissions

Let's see, I think that's one reason I'm so thrilled to have the fellowship funding I do have

I will say that I don't feel that being Asian American actually impacted my admissions as much as I feared it would

I actually got a good amount of interviews, so despite being Asian American, I interviewed at four out of the six schools I applied to, and no one seemed to think any more of it once I was interviewing

And that's given my stats, which I felt were pretty average or even on the low end for many of the programs I applied to

And that's one of the things that I really like to emphasize is here at the Art of Applying do matter

We measure a lot of things, we track a lot of things, but we don't let numbers, your age, your GPA, your GMatter GRE score, we don't let that be the most important thing about our applicants

It's a part of their profile, but we really, really encourage our clients to do the best they can, of course, on the test, but at the end of the day it's going to be about making sure you've really shared a compelling case for why you should be the person that they let in

Talk to us about your essays and what that process was like of working with us on your essays and how you felt about your essays when it was time to submit them

So going into this process, I didn't necessarily feel that essays would be my weakness because I'm a marketer

I spend my days looking at other people's copy and pulling out the bits that don't contribute to a compelling story

However, despite that, I did feel that my consultant was able to really dig in and pull out a lot that I'd overlooked

So this was different than having, say, a friend look at my essays because if I were to have friends look at them, most of them would just be like, okay, this looks fantastic, this is beautiful, I only have a few minor changes submitted as is

They're trained to have a very critical eye for what admissions is looking for or what's not necessarily contributing to your overall brand that you've built for yourself

And in many cases, I actually rewrote my essay because I felt that her feedback was so meaningful

And so I think the result was that the essays that I had when I was done with the process were actually felt really proud of them

And Ginny, what would you say to the person listening to this who's wondering if this can work for them? Should I even reach out for a breakthrough call? Is it, you know, I don't know, maybe I should just do it on my own? What would you say to a person who's just wondering if they should even reach out and have a call? I mean, I think for everyone, the value and ROI of an MBA or of working with the art of applying or any other admissions consulting group can vary

However, I would encourage them to think about, you know, whether they'll feel any regret if they don't feel like that they really put their best foot forward

Because for me, I 100% feel that that's what the art of applying helps me achieve

Like, I definitely don't think I'm someone that came into this process clueless and needing someone to hold my hand and tell me how to do everything

But the art of applying really gave me the expertise and the extra nudge to hone my brand

Like, they pointed out elements of my narrative that now looking back on them, I'm so glad I didn't apply with, I guess, you know, those distractions or things that would confuse AdCom's

And so I think it's something that is up for them to decide, but I would encourage them to at least have that breakthrough call to get a sense of it for themselves

Any last words you want to share? Anything other thing you want to say? I guess, don't be intimidated by the internet

I think that's perhaps a recurring theme in my interview that I perhaps spent way too much time online and psyched myself out and it really didn't help me

Like over obsessing with things like your race or maybe a GMAT score or whatever else you think is holding yourself back

I think in most cases those things impact you way less than you think they do

Thank you so much for sharing your great news, sharing your story and your journey

I'm still in the process myself so I totally empathize with any of the anxieties that people are going through at this time